Providence

Providence is a LARP game using Trent Yacuk's Kingdom Come system. It is a game of Fallen Angels and their struggle to survive against the forces of Heaven and Hell and some things in between.

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    Humans vs fallen.

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    Keth
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    Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Keth on Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 0:29

    Now.. on a point of curiosity and considering I have heard several things about it from different people.

    a) what is a typical humans stats? ... i realize this sounds like trying to bend rules or cheat, thats not my intent. Im wondering on a point of comparison, on average where does a human sit in this game? Average human =/= thugs

    b) And as an adjustment to the first question. Statistically.. what happens to a fallen while being crucified? do they return to the average human stats? loosing true vice and hallow and all the other fun tricks they have? and do their archtype levels drop appropriately from the point difference in creation or are they just a truly epic human even when on the cross?

    Mostly its something iv been curious about since day 1, iv got several good answers but i was wondering what the consensus was.
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    Eliel

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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Eliel on Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 0:52

    From the new book, "introverted" humans have 60 creation zeal and "distinctive" or "extroverted" humans have 50 creation zeal. "Normal" humans are referred to as having even less. My thoughts would be a normal human would be sitting at around 3,3,2 or 4,2,2 for archtypes with a fair bit of their build going into resources and professions.

    While crucified not only are you "human", I believe you are the equivalent of mortally wounded - archtypes essentially drop to 0. Your techniques disappear, your faint memory of heaven and past lives fades completely and your connection to purgatory is violently severed. Essentially it is complete and total helplessness while experiencing a violation more horrific than a human could imagine.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by cenobyte on Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 9:15

    Crucifixion was discovered by the Divine, and if properly done (as discovered by the Faithful) doesn't "turn" you human, but it does bind you to the World of Clay. Without proper attention, and if done properly, you will die the Final Death. If properly crucified, you will die of thirst after three days, or if cut, you may bleed to death. As Dave said, your connexion with the Symphony (and therefore access to your Techniques) is severed, as is any relationship you might have with Purgatory. I don't know that your Archetypes essentially drop to zero (I haven't seen that anywhere yet), but your memories of heaven and divinity certainly fade.

    For Branding, you only have to spend a minimum of 1 hour on the cross.

    Characters who are crucifed are Forced to take a Traumatic wound, and must make a Lingering Trauma test with a variable difficulty. Characters who have the Crucified Vice should also have a Setback. Characters with the Crucifixion Rite Preeminence *must* take a Setback.
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    Eliel

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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Eliel on Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 19:26

    Dropping to 0 may have been the wrong wording. My understanding is that you cannot initiate any challenges and must relent to all challenges done against you.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by cenobyte on Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 22:16

    Hrm. I'll check on that. I know that's certianly the case when you take your final Mortal Wound in any area...
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    Arc
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Arc on Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 23:28

    On a slightly different note, though thugs are kinda impressive they are still nameless entities, so they take more damage from us uber l33t f4ll3n making them far less scary, despite their four physical archetypes.
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    Keth
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Keth on Wed 11 Mar 2009 - 0:01

    Maybe i missed that in the rules on my first go through.. thugs take more damage from us then normal?

    *confused*
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    Eliel

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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Eliel on Wed 11 Mar 2009 - 2:41

    I'm going to look to see if this is in the new rules as well, but in past editions, "nameless" characters went down like a hooker at a blowjob convention.
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    Arc
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Arc on Wed 11 Mar 2009 - 3:19

    It's listed in the combat section. Nameless characters take damage equal to your maximum number of Offensive Maneuvers. At the very moment I'm unclear if this requires an OM expenditure as I've seen in the past, but that's the section I'm referencing.
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    Keth
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Keth on Wed 11 Mar 2009 - 3:23

    so if ever confronted by a fallen angel scream out "My name is <insert name here>!" and you wont be owned immediatly? Wink
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 11 Mar 2009 - 9:29

    Dave, you've once again made my day.
    And yes, nameless characters *should* take a number of wounds equal to your OMs (without you having to spend them)...at least, that's certainly how it works in downtime.
    I think because nameless characters have no DMs to spend it's just assumed that you do 'full possible damage' to them.
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    Rebecca O'Malley
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Rebecca O'Malley on Wed 11 Mar 2009 - 10:54

    In all the mass combat I've ever done, that's exactly how it works. A group of fallen can mow through a large group of thugs in no time if the dice are friendly.
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    Corral

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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Corral on Wed 11 Mar 2009 - 14:36

    Well, I can understand that perhaps you can't initiate challenges when you're supposed to be almost dead, but I would very much like to hear that that doesn't apply in *all* situations where you're relenting to challenges. Because things are much more fun when you can swing your fist at people even if OOC you know you're not going to hit.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by cenobyte on Thu 12 Mar 2009 - 18:23

    Laura, I'm not sure what you're asking.

    If you choose to 'relent' to a challenge, essentially that means you choose to fail the challenge. So if you're going to try to hit someone, you can't 'relent'. You can declare less of your Dynamic Body if you'd like, but you can't 'relent' if you've initiated a challenge.

    You can always choose to 'flail helplessly' (that doesn't require a challenge, and you should act it out), or you can choose to relent to a challenge made against you (if I declare I'm hitting you, you can relent and allow me to hit you (take a wound); otherwise you can hit back (Dynamic Body), attempt to soak the damage (Defensive Maneuver), or you can attempt to run away or dodge (Reactive Body).

    I'm just not understanding where the 'relent' things comes in with you trying to hit someone.
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    Corral

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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Corral on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 10:43

    So you can't try to fail to hit someone. Like, say, someone is suffering mortal trauma so they have to relent all challenges, and somebody is bugging them, they can't swipe at them? I mean, the player knows they have to relent all challenges but the character might still try to strike out.

    If you're going to say that when you declare you "flail helplessly" that's basically the same as initiating and then relenting a challenge, then I would agree it's pretty close, but it loses a little something in the translation, and it's also not nearly as fun because now everybody knows that you didn't initialize a challenge and can guess why.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by cenobyte on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 11:41

    Hrm. Again, I'm just not sure I'm a-hittin' what you're a-pitchin'.

    If what you're trying to do is 'flail helplessly' but you're not in a state where you must relent to all challenges and cannot initiate challenges, you can always declare your action, and use fewer Prowesses. There's always a one in six chance you'll still win, though, even if you don't want to.

    I just don't understand the theory behind initiating a challenge and then relenting. I don't think you can do that in any game I'm aware of...I think I would recommend initiating the challenge and then doing the test with, as I mentioned before, 1 Prowess.
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    Gabe
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Gabe on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 11:57

    I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in the way I'm about to mention it and I'm feeling too lazy to look so I'm going to give my opinion anyway. Sorry if I'm repeating.

    If you have to relent to all challenges then you can hardly start one. If you could, it seems to me that the way you relent to a challenge you want to initiate would be to not initiate it in the first place. Either you take the action or you don't.

    That doesn't mean that you can't flail about attempting to hit someone when you know you can't. However, it does mean that you would *never initiate a challenge* for it, instead *roleplaying* being ineffectual at striking someone. Not everything in the game has to be based on a challenge. So if you have to relent to all challenges, but are still able to physically move, then go ahead and swing at someone and voluntarily miss - no challenge needed.


    Last edited by Gabe on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 12:01; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : sometimes you just need to repeat things in different words.)
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by cenobyte on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 12:05

    Thank you, Alan. That is, I think, precisely the point I was trying to make.
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    Gabe
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Gabe on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 12:34

    cenobyte wrote:Thank you, Alan. That is, I think, precisely the point I was trying to make.

    My pleasure. I thought it's what you wanted to say, but I was getting bogged down in the language you and Laura were using and wasn't entirely sure.
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    Eliel

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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Eliel on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 13:34

    I think there are two separate points. "Relenting" when initiating challenges under normal (no mortal wounds or trauma) circumstances and what happens when a character is suffering from mortal wounds/trauma.

    To the first point, I think challenges should only be used if the players involved disagree on the outcome of an action. If character A tries to punch character B and both players A & B feel the scene would be better if character A misses, then there is no need for a challenge. So in effect character A is initiating a (small "c") challenge but Player A wouldn't be initiating a (big "C") Challenge because there is no need for a mechanic when narration and roleplaying resolve the interaction better.

    In the case of Mortal wounds or trauma, I think the implication is that even the character wouldn't be initiating shit. With mortal wounds, even flailing around would be beyond their power. I usually think barely conscious guy on a gurney from medical shows when thinking of mortal wounds. For Mortal trauma, I think the breakdown would also preclude even the attempt at violence. With Mortal trauma a character is so broken they have lost all sense of will.
    and somebody is bugging them, they can't swipe at them?
    It's Jill's call in Jill game but if it was me, I would exactly. At Mortal trauma a character won't have the drive nescesary to lash out. At mortal trauma, someone can stand behind you and flick the back of your ear over and over and over and over again and you just wouldn't care.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by cenobyte on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 13:43

    I concur with Dave on this one. If you've taken mortal Trauma, you're utterly incapable of dealing with the real world. It behooves you (heh) to try to deal in any logical way with your surroundings.

    If you've taken Mortal Wounds, you *cannot* initiate a challenge. At all. If you flail about wildly with your Mortal Wound(s) crossed off, you'll bleed out.

    Likewise, if you have Mortal Trauma, and you try to initiate a challenge, your brain will begin leaking out your nose.

    To be absolutely clear: If you have taken your final Mortal Wound(s), you cannot do anything other than bleed out. If you have taken your final Mortal Trauma you cannot do anything other than bug out.
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    Keth
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Keth on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 20:21

    With all this talk of mortal wounds I think there is one thing i should point out. There at least one, maybe two ways to survive the 'first' mortal wound and be combat capable, not capable of much else.. but combat capable.

    The first is endure (pure or not, but pure draws it out even longer), the second is indulge.

    Im not so sure about indulge, it only gives one.. or two extra mortal wounds depending on how fucked up you are. How combat capable you are at that point is unknown because it doesnt specifically say in the book wheter or not you can still keep hitting this untill the last mortal is taken.

    Endure is more straightforward in my mind. You take your mortal and you are still up and kicking for the next round (after the results of which you drop regardless), plus a combat re-roll on that turn. When it goes up to pure you get to make a soul challenge against the person who hit each time someone would deal a mortal wound to you. You still 'take' the wound, but in combination with what you get from simply having endure you are still fighting strong untill one round after they both hit you AND you fail the soul challenge. Then you drop.

    So if you take a mortal wound... you cant initiate challenges unless you are a glutton or a fortitude (or a glutonous fortitude..) and you are currently in combat.. if not, then your pretty much doomed.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by cenobyte on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 20:29

    Yes. We were talking about what happens when you take your *last* mortal wound.

    I'm sorry; I thought that was clear.
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    Keth
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    Re: Humans vs fallen.

    Post by Keth on Mon 16 Mar 2009 - 20:30

    Sorry, i missed that. It was clear, im just an idiot Razz

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