Providence

Providence is a LARP game using Trent Yacuk's Kingdom Come system. It is a game of Fallen Angels and their struggle to survive against the forces of Heaven and Hell and some things in between.

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    Overseer

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    Eliel

    Number of posts : 198
    Registration date : 2009-01-16

    Overseer

    Post by Eliel on Fri 20 Mar 2009 - 15:17

    If a character has multiple levels of overseer can that let them go multiple levels over the SP/2 max in a single resourse or just 1 point over in multiple resources?

    example: Bigcashiel has 4 SP and 2 overseer. He already has 2 temp spies and 2 temp wealth. Can he use his overseer to go to 4 temp in just wealth or can he only use it to go to 3 in each?
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    Eliel

    Number of posts : 198
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Eliel on Fri 20 Mar 2009 - 16:41

    I've re-read overseer again. It actually doesn't say anywhere that overseer only increases your max temp resources by one. Does having overseer remove all limits on a given temp resource?

    ex. If I've got only 1 or 2 SP normally my limit on temp wealth would be 1. If I have 1 overseer does that now allow me buy my temp wealth up to 4?
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    Jordan
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Jordan on Mon 23 Mar 2009 - 13:21

    Any resolution on this one yet?
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    Arc
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Arc on Mon 23 Mar 2009 - 16:08

    again, I don't have the book in front of me but I thought the example was very clear under Overseer that it raised all maximums by one for each temporary resource.
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    Eliel

    Number of posts : 198
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Eliel on Mon 23 Mar 2009 - 16:56

    The wording is
    for every Overseer Resource possessed, you may purchsase one Temporary Resource above the limit of half your Secular Power

    If I hadn't played the game with previous rulebooks, I think I would interpret that to mean any one resource can be increased beyond it's normal max to whatever the overall limit would be. As in, if I have 2 SP and 1 Overseer I could "assign" overseer to my thugs and now have as much Temp thugs as I want.

    I know this is not how it worked in older editions but that is how I read it in this rulebook.
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    Arc
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Arc on Mon 23 Mar 2009 - 23:52

    I looked at it and read it as: you may have any of your temporary resources maximum limit increased by one.

    As in: 4 SP + 1 Overseer meant you could have 3 temporary thugs and 3 temporary wealth and 3 temporary Lackeys.

    It appears the example I was thinking of was how to total temporary resources.
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    Jordan
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Jordan on Tue 24 Mar 2009 - 0:04

    There seems to be enough ambiguity for a clarification in the text.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by cenobyte on Tue 24 Mar 2009 - 19:13

    It means if you have Overseer, you can have (your normal temporary resource in any one area) + 1

    This confuses me:
    Dave wrote:if I have 2 SP and 1 Overseer I could "assign" overseer to my thugs and now have as much Temp thugs as I want.

    You can never have as many Temporary resources as you want.
    Without an Overseer, you could have 1 Thugs Temporary Resource.

    With Overseer, you could have 2 Thugs Temporary Resources.


    Last edited by cenobyte on Tue 24 Mar 2009 - 19:21; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Star spangled pasties and a slightly psychotic devotion to the cats just made Terry that much more of an odd duck.)
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    Eliel

    Number of posts : 198
    Registration date : 2009-01-16

    Re: Overseer

    Post by Eliel on Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 1:30

    That is a good way of it working. Before reading the Big Red Booklet, that is how I understood it to work also.

    However, the BRB should use clearer language in saying that, as had I not played the game previously, that is not how I would have interpretted what the book said.

    Also to go back to my original question, can more than one point of overseer be put into a single resource (as in 2 perm SP, and 2 overseer into temp Thugs to allow 3 temp thugs)?

    Different but linked question: is 4 a hard limit on temp resources regardless of perm SP/overseer? The book doesn't say that it is, but it also doesn't give difficulties for the 5th point (If I was picking them myself, I would guess 22 for 5th and 37 for 6th based on previous progression). This isn't a far-fetched possibility; Even if more than one overseer can't be put into a single resource, 7 perm SP and an overseer isn't implausable (39 zeal from char. creation for a non-mature character and only 24 zeal for a mature one).
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 8:58

    Noted. I thought the language was clear, but I'll look at it again.

    Overseers aren't necessarily assigned to a particular Resource. I don't think I'd like the stacking of Overseers. Other Storyguides might feel differently.

    I would also say that if you want to have more than 4 Temporary Resources in any area, you'd need Storyguide permission and a really, really good reason. Since there is no Difficulty Rank higher than Epic, each Storyguide would have to make that decision for themselves. I wouldn't allow it.
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    Corral

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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Corral on Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 9:11

    Jill, it took me a while to read the sentence the way he's seeing it, too. But watch my hands carefully:

    for every Overseer Resource possessed, you may purchsase one Temporary Resource above the limit of half your Secular Power

    is kinda like

    for every Overseer Resource possessed, you may purchsase one Temporary Resource [of your choice] above the limit of half your Secular Power

    Now go back and read the first sentence again. Your card was a six of clubs, am I right?
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    Eliel

    Number of posts : 198
    Registration date : 2009-01-16

    Re: Overseer

    Post by Eliel on Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 15:58

    I think all it would take is rewording it:

    for every Overseer Resource possessed, you may purchsase one Temporary Resource one above the limit of half your Secular Power.
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    Eliel

    Number of posts : 198
    Registration date : 2009-01-16

    Re: Overseer

    Post by Eliel on Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 16:01

    I also want to clarify if overseer can apply to temp SP. Based on my reading of the BRB I would say that it couldn't since SP{ isn't a resource, but since this is a change from previous editions I wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly.
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    Eliel

    Number of posts : 198
    Registration date : 2009-01-16

    Re: Overseer

    Post by Eliel on Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 16:10

    Also can overseer stack on it's opposed re-rolls? As in, if I put all 4 of my overseers into an investigate, do I get 4 re-rolls on the opposed investigate roll?
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    Molior

    Number of posts : 124
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    Registration date : 2008-06-26

    Re: Overseer

    Post by Molior on Fri 27 Mar 2009 - 16:53

    A random question because it sorta fits here: can you get more than 4 in any single Temporary Resource?
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by cenobyte on Fri 27 Mar 2009 - 17:01

    If you have more than 8 permanent Secular Power, I suppose it's a possibility.

    Hack

    Number of posts : 52
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Hack on Fri 27 Mar 2009 - 19:04

    or less if you have overseers (both temp and permanent)...
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by cenobyte on Fri 27 Mar 2009 - 19:37

    I think you can only have up to 4.
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    Jordan
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Jordan on Fri 9 Oct 2009 - 15:10

    I'm still not clear on the limits of Overseer. With 4 SP, 1 Overseer, 2 Spies, and 2 Wealth, can a 3rd point of Spies AND Wealth be purchased? OR would 2 Overseers be needed to get 2 different resources above the half SP mark? If this character purchased a 2nd Overseer, could a 4th point of Wealth be purchased if the intitial Overseer was dedicated to the 3rd point of Wealth? In essence, does a dot of Overser allow you to purchase one additional dot ... and 2 dots let you purchase 2 additional dots? Can these 2 additional dots be in the same resource or must they be in different ones? Or does each dot of Overseer allow you to purchase all of your temporary resources to that many levels above half your SP?

    Was the question about dedicating multiple Overseers to the same opposed action to gain additional opposed re-rolls addressed?

    ALSO, can Overseers be used to purchase additional temporary Secular Power (does SP act like a resource)?
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by cenobyte on Fri 9 Oct 2009 - 16:04

    1) An Overseer allows you to get *one* additional Resource over your limit. 1 Overseer = 1 resource. Therefore,
    2) 2 Overseers allows you to get *two* additional Resources over your limit (meaning, you may raise two individual Resources over your limit, and NOT that you may raise one Resource twice).
    3) It doesn't matter what Resource you raise, as long as you "tie" your Overseer to that resource. ie. Your character with 4 SP, 1 Overseer, 2 Spies, and 2 Wealth would have had to dedicate that Overseer to Wealth 3 (in your example). It could just as easily have been dedicated to a third Spies. A second Overseer would allow you to raise *another* Resource, so if you'd chosen to dedicate the first Overseer to Wealth (thus allowing you to get Wealth 3), you could dedicate the second Overseer to Spies (thus allowing you to get Spies 3).

    Clarification - are you asking whether the second Overseer could *also* be dedicated to your Wealth resource? Thus bringing you from 2 Wealth to 4 Wealth?

    Each Overseer you assign to an Opposed Action provides you with *one* reroll on the Opposed Roll.

    AFAIK, temporary SP does act like a resource, but I'll check on that. Temp SP *might* be excluded from the Overseer binge.
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    Friedrich
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Friedrich on Wed 4 Nov 2009 - 21:31

    cenobyte wrote:Clarification - are you asking whether the second Overseer could *also* be dedicated to your Wealth resource? Thus bringing you from 2 Wealth to 4 Wealth?

    I didn't ask the initial question, but I'll attempt to clarify as I heard it asked and how I want to hear it asked. :)

    Could the second overseer in the above example follow in the steps of the first? If the first overseer is used to allow purchase of Wealth 3, then can the second overseer be used to allow purchase of Wealth 4 *instead* of a third level of another resource?

    cenobyte wrote:Each Overseer you assign to an Opposed Action provides you with *one* reroll on the Opposed Roll.

    So, my next Investigate action with 2 Overseers will get *2* opposed rolls. Unless of course the first opposed roll succeeds.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 4 Nov 2009 - 21:40

    Could the second overseer in the above example follow in the steps of
    the first? If the first overseer is used to allow purchase of Wealth 3,
    then can the second overseer be used to allow purchase of Wealth 4
    *instead* of a third level of another resource?

    No.
    If you have 4 SP, then your limit for Resources is 2 in any one Resource *unless you get an Overseer*. If you get an Overseer, you can get 3 Resources in any one area. I am not fond of the idea of "stacking" Overseers. The BRB doesn't specifically say you can't do it (it also doesn't say you *can*), but I'm not allowing it.

    Friedrich wrote:
    cenobyte wrote:Each Overseer you assign to an Opposed Action provides you with *one* reroll on the Opposed Roll.

    So, my next Investigate action with 2 Overseers will get *2* opposed rolls. Unless of course the first opposed roll succeeds.

    You can assign 2 Overseers to 1 Action, yes.
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    Friedrich
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Friedrich on Wed 4 Nov 2009 - 21:47

    Thanks, Jill. I think you mentioned the answer to the clarification earlier, but it never hurts to ask and answer things using different words, right? ::grin::
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 4 Nov 2009 - 22:31

    I'm just pleased the two answers match.
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    Eliel

    Number of posts : 198
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    Re: Overseer

    Post by Eliel on Thu 5 Nov 2009 - 1:41

    Falleniel has 6 SP, 1 temp overseer and 4 temp spies. What happens if he loses his temp overseer. Does he lose the temp spies as well automatically? Does he just lose use of it until he regains his overseer and then gets it back for free or would he need to achieve the 15 marks again to get his spies back, even though all he technicallly lost was a 2 mark resource? If he had 2 temp overseers and 2 other temp resources at 4 would he get to choose which one could no longer be at 4?


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    Eliel

    He who would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself". -Thomas Paine, philosopher and writer (1737-1809)

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