Providence

Providence is a LARP game using Trent Yacuk's Kingdom Come system. It is a game of Fallen Angels and their struggle to survive against the forces of Heaven and Hell and some things in between.

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    Dates & Actions

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    Corral

    Number of posts : 359
    Location : Leaving myself behind...
    Registration date : 2008-06-25

    Dates & Actions

    Post by Corral on Mon 30 Nov 2009 - 17:34

    So I hear that there is a certain action that is, theoretically, occurring shortly after the game. It occurs to me that this particular action might drastically interfere with actions that are going on later. ie, the second action probably wouldn't happen at all, making some submitted endeavours null and void. The person or people involved would presumably hear about the results of the first event long in advance... plenty long enough to change their actions for the month, except that of course all actions are submitted and resolved in one "turn". Jill, what would you do in a case like this? Would those voided actions simply not happen? Or would they get a chance to resubmit? Or, knowing this in advance, might it be possible for those participating in the first action to submit early, so that that particular action can get resolved quickly?

    I'm sorry that this post is very vague, but I'm hoping that details aren't necessary, because I don't want to blurt out secret information that I probably shouldn't even know.
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    Arc
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    Registration date : 2008-08-07

    Re: Dates & Actions

    Post by Arc on Mon 30 Nov 2009 - 17:51

    My understanding of cases such as this that if the action is undertaken in downtime then timing matters not. They could write a story that says it takes place 30 seconds after the end of the last census. If their action was successful, great.

    However, the other action (which may be null and void due to the success of the first action according to conventional reason and ideas such as "cause and effect") if also done as a downtime action succeeds on the roll required then it will likely mean that both actions end up happening at the same time.

    Here is an example. An item is known to be in a store, and word gets out that it is a super valuable relic of awesome called "The Silver Tongue of Arc". The Infernal of the city seek to harness its power. The Divine seek to destroy it. Action 1 - The Divine submit a turn and a story that says right after census they Brimstone the entire city block into oblivion. The Infernal submit their downtime turn to obtain the item. Action 2 is also successful. The ST then finds the actual solution to the sequence of events AFTER the results have been done. In this case it is simple, the Infernal coincidentally had one of their own hear the commotion of the Divine and obtained the relic as the block was destroyed. Or the ST may elect to decide that whoever got more successes on their action gets the result they wanted (assuming the Divine were targeting the relic and not just the city block).

    To every problem there is an opportunity to interject how awesome I am in the solution. Also, forget about what you know about how the really real world works. Kingdom Come thumbs its nose at how the really real world does things.
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    Bal

    Number of posts : 102
    Registration date : 2009-07-28

    Re: Dates & Actions

    Post by Bal on Mon 30 Nov 2009 - 19:35

    Arc wrote:Also, forget about what you know about how the really real world works. Kingdom Come thumbs its nose at how the really real world does things.

    This really is the key to gaming sanity, right here.

    Also known as "Forget it, Jake, it's Kingdom Come." (sub in other game systems as you will)
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Dates & Actions

    Post by cenobyte on Mon 30 Nov 2009 - 20:41

    Jill, what would you do in a case like this? Would those voided actions
    simply not happen? Or would they get a chance to resubmit? Or, knowing
    this in advance, might it be possible for those participating in the
    first action to submit early, so that that particular action can get
    resolved quickly?

    1) There are no such things as 'voided actions'. That smacks of retro-gaming, which I do not do.
    2) The reason all of your turns are submitted by a certain deadline is so that I can roll them all at once. For situations like this. If Action A is unsuccessful, and Action B is dependent on the success of Action A, then I will have to come up with something interesting to send out as a result. I don't allow folks to resubmit most times because their *resubmitted* actions could affect other people's actions that have already been rolled.

    Example:
    Action A: Investigate Angel
    Action B: Hunt Angel
    If Action A is not successful, or if the results of Action A is that there *is* no Angel to be found, then people might choose not to participate in the Hunt. So the people doing the Investigate might want to get that done ahead of time. While there is no real *problem* with this, let's consider something else. Player A is doing the Investigate and wants it done ahead of time. But Player Q doesn't know Player A's action has been submitted early, and Player Q's action is to Sabotage the Investigation or to Protect the target against the Investigation or to Patrol. So if I do Player A's action first, then Player A gets an unfair advantage over player Q.

    Also, people who choose not to do something IC (not participating in the Hunt) because of information they found out OOC (due to Player A's unfair advantage) are, IMO, metagaming. Trying to find out information IC that you know OOC is also pretty cheesy, particularly if you go *out of your way* to find something out IC simply because you know it OOC.

    Also, John and Wade's replies are much more concise than mine.

    Basically, Laura, I'll say what I've said in response to similar questions: I don't know what I'd do in that situation, since that situation hasn't come up yet, and, like many things in KC, the answer depends on so many variables that I cannot possibly give a blanket statement on how I would handle it.
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    Bal

    Number of posts : 102
    Registration date : 2009-07-28

    Re: Dates & Actions

    Post by Bal on Mon 30 Nov 2009 - 20:52

    I think it might also be simplified by remembering that most of the Secular Actions really are things that take course of the length of an entire month... Sure, the fight in a Hunt is just a single encounter. But it is led up by days of searching and planning, right?

    So in the case of an action that can be quickly and definitively resolved ahead of other actions... The problem there isn't from how that interacts with the Secular Actions system...the problem is it probably isn't a Secular Action, and is probably just a scene instead.

    In the case with the Investigate and the Hunt - you can do them contingent on one another. Do the Investigate one month, and then the Hunt the next. The issue isn't "What order to they happen in?", the issue is you're trying to do two things that would be occuring at the same time. A better example might be two actions involving my car being done for december downtime:
    A) Repair Car: My mechanic is going to take a month to repair my car. It'll be ready by December 31st.
    B) Drive Car on monthlong crosscountry trip: I'm going to drive my car all over the country for the month of December.
    One might then ask "But what if the Repair Car action fails?" But, really, it should be obvious that the car is broken for all of December no matter what, it just has a chance of being fixed at the end of the month.

    If my mechanic could instead repair the car in only a day or two, or even fix it up before I leave the game that day, it probably isn't a Secular Action. It is just a thing I do. And possibly a scene. A dramatic car repair scene filled with nail-biting tension.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Dates & Actions

    Post by cenobyte on Mon 30 Nov 2009 - 20:56

    Do the Investigate one month, and then the Hunt the next.

    I have recommended this in the past. However, there have been times when things have changed from month to month.
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    Corral

    Number of posts : 359
    Location : Leaving myself behind...
    Registration date : 2008-06-25

    Re: Dates & Actions

    Post by Corral on Tue 1 Dec 2009 - 9:02

    Guess that all makes sense.

    Also,

    Also, people who choose not to do something IC (not participating in
    the Hunt) because of information they found out OOC (due to Player A's
    unfair advantage) are, IMO, metagaming. Trying to find out information
    IC that you know OOC is also pretty cheesy, particularly if you go *out
    of your way* to find something out IC simply because you know it OOC.

    I hope you know me well enough to know I had no intention of doing any such thing. I just know that if this particular action *did* go ahead (and succeed or fail enough to change things) immediately after the census, we would almost certainly all hear about it. If you had decided to resolve it early (and I'm pretty sure you did decide to resolve something early once) and no such awareness came of it, then I would act as if I knew nothing. Because Malicia knows nothing.

    To every problem there is an opportunity to interject how awesome I am in the solution.

    I'll have to remember that. Wink
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Dates & Actions

    Post by cenobyte on Tue 1 Dec 2009 - 9:34

    Oh, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone. I don't think there is a lot of metagaming going on in Providence. I've seen some of it, mostly of the "GAH! I know this OOC and now have to find a way to know it IC", which is always a bit hinky to me, sort.

    And, if there WAS an action that took place immediately after Census, I have not heard about it. In general, I do encourage you (the plural you) to let me know of these things in Real Time, because if it's something Everyone would have heard about, then it probably would be posted to the Game Blog.

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