Providence

Providence is a LARP game using Trent Yacuk's Kingdom Come system. It is a game of Fallen Angels and their struggle to survive against the forces of Heaven and Hell and some things in between.

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    Angelporting

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    Bal

    Number of posts : 102
    Registration date : 2009-07-28

    Angelporting

    Post by Bal on Fri 12 Feb 2010 - 14:38

    This is as much or possibly even more a general KC question than a Providence one, though of course it is brought up in my mind because of Providence. The mentally challenged angel has been portrayed as being able to pretty much instantly pop in and out of existence - the so-called angelporting. I guess the first question is a relatively Providence-related one - those characters who are more experienced and have fought angels in the past, is this an ability that is typical of all angels? Or is it one that only this particular angel has been known to manifest?

    If only this crippled angel has manifested, disregard the rest of this post, as it really doesn't apply.

    If it is typical - it needs to be fixed. Not so much in Providence, because Providence is a running game and its reality is already established. But for future KC games - if all angels can do it, then it follows that either the angels are morons for not using the ability ruthlessly or that there is no possible way the Fallen can even have a small chance in the Last Crusade. Angels being morons seems to go against what one would expect, and obviously there is not much of a point to the game if the Fallen don't have a chance(I like the Fallen being the underdogs, fighting a desperate war, but that is different from them being able to look at things and say "Yup, no chance").

    I cannot help but wonder if the Antagonists section of the book is still quite vague on the nature of the Guise and the like. The copy I have is several years old, but is definitely ambiguous - it mentions the Guise, and it mentions things like the Angel's body control where they can regenerate or force themselves to quickly die if they are incapacitated. I had always assumed that the Guise masked their signatures somewhat(so they could only be detected by True Voice at the equivalent range of a Fallen instead of from across the city) and made them appear as mortals, but not that it made them corporeal when they were not otherwise. Before when I've had Angels drop their guises to come and get me, I was more under the impression that they were dropping the pretense of humanity and moving rapidly across the landscape as celestial beings on wings, but that when they got to me I'd still be able to, well, see them and punch them in the face. Indeed, part of the reasons they didn't drop their Guise is they were far easier to detect without their Guise.

    If, instead, it is the body control thing where they can discorporate themselves to force a return to Heaven(and then presumably come back down elsewhere)... The edition that I have says it takes a minimum of one minute for the angel to do such, and that is presuming it is already mortally wounded. And, of course, during that time, the Fallen get a chance to banish it.

    Anyway, I have a suspicion the Antagonists chapter still needs to be clarified, cleaned up, and exactly what Angels and Devils can and cannot do pretty clearly spelled out - especially if the Fallen are supposed to have had occasional success against them in the Last Crusade. Perhaps this isn't an issue - the gimped angel is a special snowflake who has a special power unrelated to standard angel abilities, or perhaps it is a known thing that said section needs clean up and clarification and such is on the list of tasks. I think it is generally to KC's benefit if the antagonists play more or less by the same rules as the PCs - they may have more points or advantages, but they fundementally use the same powers for the most part and are built the same way. If angels can teleport so quickly and easily, they come one step too close to the incorporal spirit antagonists that can only be affected by a few special snowflake characters, a brand of antagonist that used to be common in LARPs once upon a time, and of which I have heard Trent shares the same seething hatred as I have for them.

    Anyway, like I said, it might not be an issue, since I don't know how things are working behind the scenes. But since I'd heard a lot of commentary about the angelporting over the past few months, I figured it deserved to be brought up - even if there are no answers that can be given for plot reasons, it is definitely something to think about when consulting with Trent over the antagonist rules.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Angelporting

    Post by cenobyte on Sat 13 Feb 2010 - 19:21

    1) there are rules in the Storyguide section of the book for how and why Angels can 'move with the speed of a thought'. Older characters will know that this is something (I won't say "all") many Angels can do.

    2) The book I have is quite clear that the Guise cannot mask at all an Angel's true nature to those with True Voice.

    3) Yes, the Storyguide section needs to be revisited, revised, and clarified.

    4) There are a specific set of circumstances that surround an Angel being able to travel at will; I don't have the info in front of me, but I am willing to discuss it individually if people have concerns. One of the things to note is that if an Angel decides to travel in this manner, it causes the Angel damage.
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    Bal

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    Re: Angelporting

    Post by Bal on Sat 13 Feb 2010 - 19:32

    cenobyte wrote:4) There are a specific set of circumstances that surround an Angel being able to travel at will; I don't have the info in front of me, but I am willing to discuss it individually if people have concerns. One of the things to note is that if an Angel decides to travel in this manner, it causes the Angel damage.

    Something that should be clarified here - is the angel incorporeal when traveling at the speed of thought, or is it merely moving very quickly? Importantly - if it is already engaged in combat, does it still have to make the Reactive Body check in order to escape? What about if grappled?

    I would submit that if Trent is relying on "causes the angel damage" to be a balancing factor that he rethink such - causing damage for using a power is occasionally a decent balancing factor for PCs, but almost never for NPCs, especially if it is a power that allow the NPC to disengage from combat. Unlike a PC, an antagonist doesn't then need to spend the rest of a session wounded and vulnerable for the most part.

    Actually, that is a good generalized rule for game design - things that are balanced by resource expenditure occasionally work for PCs, but can only work for NPCs if it is a resource such that your average character would burn through all of it and still want more in any individual scene.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Angelporting

    Post by cenobyte on Sat 13 Feb 2010 - 21:00

    is the angel incorporeal when traveling at the speed of thought, or is
    it merely moving very quickly? Importantly - if it is already engaged
    in combat, does it still have to make the Reactive Body check in order
    to escape? What about if grappled?

    I don't know offhand.

    also, I might be misremembering the rules for travel-as-fast-as-thought; as I said, I have not got the rules in front of me (in fact, the rules are several thousand miles away at the moment)...I'll clarify what I have in the BRB edition of the rules when I get back next week.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Angelporting

    Post by cenobyte on Sat 20 Mar 2010 - 12:25

    I can't actually find the rule that Wade is talking about in the Storyguide section. I'll have to look through the whole book, which will take significantly longer.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Angelporting

    Post by cenobyte on Sat 20 Mar 2010 - 12:31

    What I remember reading is that certain members of the Host can travel instantaneously. This is what I recall of the issue: it's not like celerity where you're simply moving incredibly fast; the Angel is not Incorporeal, but rather, it's more of a bending of Creation to its purposes. For some Angels, they would have to engage in a Body challenge if they were grappled (probably not if they were engaged in combat, but perhaps); others would not. Doing so causes damage to the being attempting it, and it also disrupts the Symphony in the area. So much so that humans notice. It can also cause damage to humans. I don't want to say too much else, because I don't believe in giving everything about an NPC away. Suffice it to say that it doesn't happen very often, and when it does, chances are good the entire city would notice and/or be affected.

    Also, I should mention that the only "mechanics" I ever found for this were: "...or whatever is needed for the story".

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